***Trigger warning. This podcast contains description of various abusive situations. Listener discretion is advised. You are listening to the Preacher Boys Podcast, a Podcast shedding light on decades of mental, physical, and sexual abuse within the Independent Fundamental Baptist movement. The testimony shared on this podcast are told from the personal experience and perspective of the survivors. Not all legal outcomes are known or final, and the suspect is presumed innocent until proven guilty in the court of law. To find more information about the Preacher Boys Podcast and upcoming documentary visit preacherboysdoc.com or connect on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter with the handle @preacherboysdoc.

Now here's your host, Eric Skwarczynski.***

Eric: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Preacher Boys Podcast. This is a very unique series of episodes for the Preacher Boys Podcast. This is a series with Rachel Peach, she is a survivor of sexual assault from Faith Baptist Church of Wildomar and she really just got super transparent and shared her story from start to finish. Part one of this series is going to explain really the grooming process and how her Youth Pastor systematically groomed her for abuse.

Part two's going to really dive into what prompted her to speak out and how she broke free of this situation. And then part three is about her advocacy work within the Independent Baptist movement to help victims of abuse. So definitely don't want to miss a single second, don’t jump around these episodes. Don't skip through really listen to everything she has to say and I know like myself, you're going to walk away with a whole lot of respect for Rachel. She's an incredible human being and she deserves to be heard. So tune into this first episode and I'll see you in the next one.

All right everyone, welcome back to the Preacher Boys Podcast. I'm so excited to have Rachel on the show today. Rachel, can you just introduce yourself to my audience and let them know how you first got introduced to the IFB movement?

Rachel: So thank you, Eric. My name is Rachel Peach and how I was introduced to the IFB is: my family and I grew up in a military family, my dad was in the air force. And so for the first seven or eight years of my life we moved around a lot. One of the first places that we, I remember anyways living in was actually in Japan and we were stationed in Okinawa and while we were there, we started going to a small little missionary church there. And it was a Baptist church but I would not define it as IFB. And even as a little kid, I know you see things differently as a kid, but I don’t remember wearing like dresses or skirts or things like that and I don't remember it being an issue or other women, um, not wearing it and it being an issue. But we really enjoyed that church and it was like a cool little community. cause it was all American families and their all military families from just different branches. And so it was a fun little community that we had there and we moved to Southern California in 2000 and we wanted to get involved in a church again, just because we had a positive and good experience from the previous church and so it would make sense to find one that is similar to the one that you were just attending. So we found a Baptist Church that was in Wildomar, California, called Faith Baptist Church. And so we started attending there around, it was like right around 2000-2001 and that is how I was introduced to IFB.

Eric: Got it, So I didn't know the Japan backstory, which is pretty cool. That's not a bad, that's not a bad first experience to have. Yeah, but what was your obviously that experience in Japan and that church wasn’t at least perceived harmful. Obviously as a kid, you don't notice a lot too, so who knows, as far as like you noticing something, nothing, no red flags were there at all. 

Rachel: No, not at all. 

Eric: Yeah, so when you guys first got to Faith Baptist in Wildomar, was it a positive experience, off the bat? Was it your parents, took you and you were like, oh, this place is really weird and different? What was that first reaction from you?

Rachel: I will say that it was, I did notice I was one of the handful that was wearing, a girl, that was wearing pants and that was kind of uncomfortable, but, it wasn't a huge deal to me. Honestly, it was a good experience when beginning at the beginning, when as a kid. This was also, I knew this move was going to be a more permanent stay, as my brother and I were getting older. And so it was a kind of a cool feeling, knowing that I can make friends now and it will be more permanent relationships instead of temporary, since that's kind of how it works in the military. And I remember those first few weeks as a little second grader at Faith Baptist. Like winning a bunch of candy and I came home with a goldfish one Sunday and I mean as a kid this is so fun. And I'm seeing the same faces every Sunday and that's really fun and exciting that I'm making friends now. And I mean, I know I can tell you exactly on the property like where I was when I accepted Jesus in my heart. I mean, it was a good experience in that time when you’re, I was first being introduced to the church as a little kid.

Eric: Right right, so at what point, I mean obviously it wasn’t an amazing experience all the way through and so what was the tipping point there. Where you first noticed maybe, okay maybe somethings not quite right here, or maybe this line has been crossed here. What was the first time you started, like I guess having the bubble burst for you at the church?

Rachel: So we attended for, I think it was maybe a year-a year and a half, and then my parents made the decision to put us in the Christian school. And there was also a school affiliated with the church and it’s all on the same property. And at first, I was excited because that meant I was going to be with my church friends, everyday now and that was exciting. But with going to the school, that also meant a lot more rules are to be followed now and one of the big ones being, your dress. That girls can not wear shorts or pants, they can only wear skirts and dresses. And, I mean, I at this point I was a huge tomboy growing up. So it was already a fight to even get me to wear a skirt in the first place. So now being told I have to wear every day, I like, I specifically remember like crying in the car cause I did not want to have to wear skirts every day. But the compromise was, if you don’t want to wear a skirt or dress, you could wear culottes. And I don’t really know how to explain them, like you can’t just go to the store, someone has to make them for you. And, so I remember the compromise is, I got to pick out the fabric that the culottes are going to be made with and I picked out camouflage and Sponge Bob because I wanted to at least have fun if I had to wear a skirt or dress every day. And so, that was a big one that I remember thinking like, I never had to do this before, like why do I have to do this now? And we weren't allowed to go to the movie theater anymore. We weren’t even allowed to talk about movies at all, or you would get in trouble. You couldn’t listed to any outside music, it was only like church approved Christian music and even some Christian music wasn’t even allowed. You had to go to church three times a week and I remember there was a lot of rules and that was so confusing to me because I never had to do any of these things prior.

So I didn't understand why it was bad or why it was wrong, but I wanted to be with my friends in school and they've all been doing it their whole life. So I also kind of felt like I didn't want to be looked at as the bad kid or like the rebel, so I guess I’ll just follow it and start doing all these things. And I feel like I also need to point out, I remember as young as, fourth, fifth grade, you’re being made to think that you are a part of something so special and you are so lucky that you get to be a part of FBC Wildomar, and all these other people just wish they get to be a part of this and you are, so why would you mess that up? Why would you risk that? And this is as good as it's ever going to get. And I remember I was a little kid feeling like that and feeling so much fear that this could all be taken away from me if I don’t just follow the rules, if I don’t listen, if I don’t just go along with it. And so I remember thinking that was weird, but I can adjust to it, we can just make it happen. And then as I got older and into the teen department that's when things kind of, there’s even more rules added now and a lot more pressure put on you. 

Eric: That’s a good, that's a good word pressure. And I think, yeah, it, you just kind of summed up in your, in your story. And it's interesting to hear from somebody who started young enough to recognize the change, because like I grew up from day one in that world. And so I grew up on the campus seven days a week, like I literally was on campus seven days a week for the first 18 years. And it does, it has things like I had friends who were like brothers and sisters, because we were together seven days a week. But you also are so isolated to where you do, like for me from day one, it was, Oh, I'm so lucky to be a part of God's movement in this church. And in this, you know I'm lucky I was born into an Independent Baptist church and not into a reformed church or a Calvinist church or this kind of church or nondenominational church or the skater church that they always talked about down the road. And yeah, and then once you start getting into high school, the pressure just keeps building and building to where, okay, there's literally nowhere for you to go, but with us in this direction. And so I think pressures are really good. 

Rachel: And especially when you start, when we started going to school like before, I would only see these people every Sunday. Now, I'm with them Monday through Sunday, you're there every day for school and then you're encouraged to be a part of a ministry, which means you're there on Saturday mornings now. And then you see them again on Sunday. And then you just repeat that, you’re always with these group of people. So you do feel like, I mean, as much as I didn't understand it was still like, these are my family, this is my community. And as the longer you’re in it, the longer that’s all you have. You don’t have a Plan B, there’s nobody else to go to, this is all you’ve known now. And so I remember when, you know, I’m in the youth group now and a lot of pressures is put on how you dress, especially the girls. I remember even as young as eighth grade, being pulled out of class by the school secretary and her telling me that a male teacher turned me in because he could see through my shirt. And being made to feel like I can’t, why would you make him turn you in? Like, why would you wear a shirt like that? And that young feeling like, oh my gosh, why would I do that? 

Eric: You said eighth grade?

Rachel: Yeah. And so, and also now that in the youth group, you’re also given mandatory, like you have to go what they call soul-winning, that’s mandatory. Which is just you’re going into the community and inviting people to church, so that’s, you have to do that. You have to, you’re encouraged to be a part of a ministry, whether that’s working in the nursing or working on a bus route. Which is just, they go around to pick up people that cannot drive to church, so a bus will come pick them up. And, you’re, you are just putting so much pressure on yourself to make sure that you’re making everybody happy and you’re, while all following the rules. And, so I do remember just as a teenager having, I don’t know if you call it anxiety, but just constantly making sure I’m doing what I’m supposed to be doing and making all my leaders happy. And I don’t want to get in trouble, I don’t want to be around people that I might get in trouble with, and just constantly worrying that you’re going to get in trouble. And I remember, my, I went into the youth group at the starts of seventh grade and I finally got to go to teen camp and it’s something that’s hyped up throughout the year and I finally get to be a part of it. And, you get to be with your friends for a whole week in the mountains in California, it’s going to be so much fun.

Eric: Was it Tim Ruhls' camp? 

Rachel: No.

Eric: What camp was it?

Rachel: Well our church was the one that hosted it.

Eric: Oh, okay.

Rachel: Yeah, there was several different, there was like a church from New Mexico that came, a church from Arizona. It was a pretty big camp but our church was the one that hosted it. And this is my first year at teen camp and I got kicked out on the third day. And I, I mean, it was very unclear why we were getting sent home. I was even told by a youth worker a couple years later, that the only reason we did was because it was our pastor’s sister that was upset with us and she really pressured for us to be sent home. But it made me terrified to get in trouble again, because I as a little seventh grader, what you’re like 12-13 years old, I was instantly made to feel like I completely blew it and I disappointed everyone. And I felt like it gave me just a constant anxiety that I need to please my leaders and like a need that I have to make up for this now because, look what I did. And it was, I mean a very traumatic experience as in my mind, I’m still a kid and I’m being sat in the back of the auditorium with my suitcase next to me and my friends and people trying to walk up to talk to me and the youth group leader being like, No, you can not talk to her. And I'm just like, I'm so sorry I didn't mean to. And that was my introduction to the youth group and so I instantly felt I have to make it up to these people. Yeah I completely ruined my reputation, as they put a lot of pressure on your reputation and your name. And I just blew it, I completely blew it for something that I was still confused about what I really even did. And there was no clear explanation of what even happened, but it was a lot.

Eric: Yeah, no, and it goes back to that pressure, the amount of anxiety I talked about this on a recent episode, but the amount of anxiety that I felt and the amount of times I felt like I was the worst kid. Like I was literally bombing at life and I look back now and it's so funny because I wasn't doing any, like my wildest teenage moments are like just normal teenager, teenage moments. It's really, it is when you get sent home from a youth activity and it’s, you were distracting people who needed to hear the gospel. There's probably someone that needed to be saved that isn't saved now, because you were acting up during a church service. Like thinking constantly about you not participate in ministry or you not keeping quiet in church being the direct reason someone's going to go to hell is a lot of weight for a 12, 13, 14, 15 year old to be carrying on their shoulders. And yeah, I can imagine that being your first introduction to not necessarily put you in a good state of mind as a teenage.

Rachel: And especially because this is something that, you look forward to starting at like fifth, sixth grade that I get to go to teen camp next year. And I mean, it’s a week long camp, so it is a lot of money that your parents are paying for and I lasted two and a half days and I was sent home. And I mean it was, I was so disappointed in myself and I can recognize now that I became very depressed after that, just cause I, I’m looking at it as my pastor thinks I’m this terrible person now, my youth pastor thinks, you know that I’m one of the bad teens and I completely just disappointed my parents because they paid all this money and I’m already home, I got sent home. And it was, I mean, I used to joke about it because it was just a really strange experience, but I recognize now where my constant need to make everyone happy came from. Because I didn’t want that feeling anymore, I wanted everyone, I didn’t want people to think I was the bad kid. 

And so, a couple years go by and I’m in like ninth tenth grade now and I have a good set of friends that I really like. And, our principal, his name is Greg Beale, and he did this really fun thing where he would just go through everybody’s lockers and take their cell phones out and he went through everyone’s cell phone. And there was a ton of people that had music on their phone, like what they call bad music, music that the church does not sell. And, he like freaked out about it and called us all to the office. I remember I was sitting there with 10 other people waiting to go int there, and he just ripped my face off for having music on my phone that we should not be listening to. And from then on, it just seemed like I was constantly getting in trouble. And I mean, I will say, some of it was my fault, it’s the rule and I was breaking it and not going to act like I wasn’t. One of the big rules as a teenager was, you’re not allowed to have any social media at all, and I had a Facebook and he found the Facebook and I was in trouble for that.

I was suspended because of dress code. Like you’re not, your skirt isn’t long enough or your shirt wasn’t high enough, I remember I was suspended for a few days. And, I just felt like I was in this pit where I was back to being looked at as the bad kid. And it, whether I was, I mean I don’t want to think that anyone was out to get me or anything. Maybe, I was just not being as sneaky as I thought I was. And just getting caught a lot with doing stupid things. But I think like you said earlier, I was so frustrated and disappointed in myself for constantly getting in trouble. But I look back now, you know as a 28 year old and see my 14, 15 year old self and it’s like you were getting in trouble for listening to Taylor Swift and Katy Perry. And, adding your cousins on Facebook and going to the movie theater to watch Pirates of the Caribbean. You weren’t, you weren’t you know smoking pot, or underage drinking, or you know sneaking out with your friends at night and staying out past curfew. Like those are the, that’s what you normally get in trouble as a teenager and but going to the movie theater and listening to Katy Perry is like equivalent to that in their eyes. And that’s how you’re being made to feel, like you’re, and not just that but I mean, I remember even Mr. Beale, who he was a very, just emotionally and verbally abusive man. But he would just make you feel like these people: your pastor, your teachers, your youth paster, they’re making all these sacrifices for you to be your teacher, to be your fill in the blank, and this is what they get in return. This is what, this is how you show your appreciation for their sacrifice. So you’re sitting there like wow, I can’t believe I would do that. Like they probably think I hate them now. Yeah, so that was just, I mean, I was definitely just in this pit of like, I can’t believe I just blew it again, I was doing so good and I just completely blew it.

Eric: Yeah, it’s and that’s a pattern of abuse in itself is and I’ve thought about this as I’ve looked back and it’s hard because I do want to be careful, like I don’t want to look at every disagreement and say, oh that was abuse. When it comes to my background or say everything, cause in know there were a lot of well intentioned people that did really dumb things as leaders that for whatever reason had a bad impact. But, I also look at some relationships I had, I’ve talked about my relationship with my youth pastor and I don’t have, I don’t have hard feelings toward him or anything like that. But the relationship I had with him, especially near the end was, I would say somewhat mentally abusive in the sense that he did the same thing. 

He would basically move the goalposts where I was always chasing approval from him, from staff. And so, you know if I volunteered for the bus route then that got me you know, oh I was great for a few months. And that was like, why aren’t you doing the choir and the bus route? Okay, I can’t sing but I’ll do the choir too. Well, why aren’t you ushering and doing that? Why aren’t you going soul-winning on Tuesdays and Saturdays? And it was constantly chasing this like unattainable goal and trying to constantly be like, okay, am I being an above and beyond Christian? Am I in God’s will? You know, am I doing all these things that I’m supposed to do? And so yeah, whether intentional or not, it's definitely within the IFB movement from a lot of people I've talked to. I think that idea of constantly moving the goal of what makes you a good Christian, is a common thing. That's something that happens consistently within it.

Rachel: And constantly moving the goal, but also constantly changing what makes you a bad Christian and being made to feel like, you know in each time, I’m, each time we’re getting in trouble with music, or movie theater, or the very small things of life. You’re not just disappointing your leaders, your disappointing God. And this is how, what do you think God thinks? And, you’re being made to think that he must hate me because all I’m doing is everything bad in their eyes. And, so it was shortly after that, it was all around this same time period, I remember it was a Sunday night and I will never forget this, that our pastor’s name was Bruce Goddard, and he did a whole sermon on teenagers with social media. And he eve said, “there’s some sitting in here right now that I went through your Facebook or your MySpace. This was early 2000’s, and I’m sitting there with my best friend like, oh my gosh, he’s talking about me. And, he went, every sermon from there, on was about you know what is your teenager doing with their social medial? They’re not even supposed to have social media, with their music. And I mean, I felt so guilty.

***Audio: Bruce Goddard / I have more preaching on my phone then anything else. I don’t save videos, wouldn’t even know how. Maybe videos I’ve taken of my grandkids. But preaching, how much teaching and preaching do we have at our church? Again, 6 in the morning, 6 in the evening there's teaching and preaching. Get it all. Shut the television off, get off Facebook. I'm amazed walking around church before we had all this craziness, the number of people sitting in church on Facebook, you have a chance to be in fellowship. The first continue is in prayer and the next continue is in doctrine and the next continue is in fellowship, you’re with the people of God, this is vital. Facebook is not fellowship, it’s an open door to every kind of idiotic person and thing on the planet. You know who runs Facebook, they are not Bible believing Christians, I'll tell you that much.***

Rachel: I felt so ashamed that I knew that he obviously knew that, I got in trouble with that and some of my friends got in trouble with that. It was the next week I remember, our youth pastor, his name was Victor Montero. He did a whole chapel sermon, we had chapel twice a week in our Christian school and he did a whole chapel sermon about music and about how comparing it to a drug, that it feels like a drug and it's and addiction and music controls how you think and what you do and it's a sin and this and that. And just went on and on about music and I'm also sitting there feeling like okay, so he knows now. Like everyone knows that we're just totally screwing up and just getting in trouble. And they know about all the music, all the bad music that I have been listening to. And I felt terrible, I felt horrible about myself, that I completely disappointed him, that I disappointed my pastor, and my principal. And he gets to the end of the sermon and he says, if you want to overcome the sin and the addiction of music, I can help you and come talk to me and we can work this out. And he even made a comment and I don't know if this was word for word, but he made a comment about like, “We can do it together, we don’t have to tell your parents, we don’t have to tell teachers we can work on this together. You don't have to feel like you're going to get in trouble if you come to me.” And so I saw that as like a way to redeem myself or make up for all the bad that I had done before that. And so, that’s exactly what I did. And so I went up to him after chapel and I said, “you know I listen to bad music and I want to give it up. I want to do this.” And so he said, “okay, how about tomorrow? Or it was sometime that week, come to my office and bring me all of your bad music, all of your CDs, whatever it is. And we'll talk about it.” And I said, “okay.” So I can’t remember if it was the next day or sometime that week, I remember I went to his office and I had like you know the books, it's like for where you put all the CDs. I don't even think they sell those anymore. But, I went in there and I brought it to him and I was going in expecting him to rip my face off or be so crushed that I had all of these CDs. And, I had Taylor Swift, and Katy Perry, and Rascal Flatts, and...

Eric: All the worst bands. 

Rachel: Oh yeah, and I remember I put it on his desk and he opens it up and starts going through it and he's not saying anything. And he gets to I had a Beach Boys CD and he goes, “wow, you know who the Beach Boys are?”, I’m like, “well yeah, I think they’re cool.” And he just starts talking with me about how cool the Beach Boys are and then he makes a comment about Billy Joel and I'm like, “yeah, I know who Billy Joel is.” And he's like, “Whoa, I can't believe you know who Billy Joel, like you're too young to listen to him,” or something like that. And just starts talking with me about music, which I was not expecting. I was expecting him to be really upset that I was listening to this and he wasn’t and I was relieved that he wasn’t upset though. And we just started talking about Billy Joel and the Beach Boys and it was totally normal. And so he said, “is it okay if I start texting you, just to check in on you and work together with this?” And I’m like, “yeah, that’s fine.”

I also feel like I need to explain the nature of the youth group, at this point and who Victor was. So he, him texting me and I feel like people would be like, “wouldn’t you think that’s weird?” No, his name was on every single girl's phone. There was not a friend of mine that he was not texting and it was very open that wasn’t a secret. And so for him to say, “I’m going to start texting you about it,” that it’s just what everyone else was doing. And also, he was one of the most inappropriate people I’ve ever met. And I’m laughing about it now because as an adult you see things much differently. Like why didn't nobody think that was weird? Why did nobody say something about this? if I would have heard the conversations and the jokes he made. If it was my kid, I would have been like, the heck is wrong with this guy. And he would, I mean, I remember as young as eighth grade, hearing him make dirty jokes, that was just who he was, that was his humor. And everyone just laughed about it. And, like some examples, we'd be at a teen activity at the beach and someone would be eating a hot dog and he'd walk up and say, “yeah, I bet you like that.” and everyone would just laugh. that was just his humor. And, one of my really good friends, developed a lot quicker than the other girls and she'd be walking down the hallway and he would say “what's up DD” and we just thought that was funny. That was, there was nothing to wonder why that would be very inappropriate to be commenting about a 14 year olds bra size. And, or if your bra was showing, he would just walk up and snap the straps and just laugh about it. Or, if we were like upset or giving him attitude or something, he'd be like, “it's, someone's time of the week and or time of the month,” and everyone would just start laughing. And that was there, that was so normal. And we, I look back now and we were so desensitized to why that's inappropriate and you're also living in this bubble as it was, so you’re not realizing that's even inappropriate. And that was very much the nature of the youth group and his interaction with the teenagers specifically teenage girls.

Eric: Yeah, that’s so crazy. I mean, I didn’t have that situation, you know obviously like happened at the school that I grew up in, church I grew up in. But yeah, that the kind of like inappropriate humor and stuff was like rampant in the youth group. And it wasn't just us, it was the leaders and it was like, there were just a lot of jokes that were like, like gay jokes. And there were a lot of jokes that were like way over the line. But yeah, you don't think anything of it at the time, but it's because your leader sets the morality for the group. And so he does it. It's okay. And, if I told a dirty joke, then I might get demerits or he might laugh. Who knows which way it's going to go. But for people listening, I hope you guys already picked up because I was going to ask you about, grooming. But you’ve already hit it from the first point, red flag, one saying, “hey, come talk to me. We don’t have to tell anybody.” That alone was like, when he said that I’m like, okay, big siren going off. Like, that’s not cool and again just for people listening like definitely read about this stuff. But one of the first things that everybody does when they groom somebody is to create some kind of secret that only they have. And so private counseling, like telling them something about them, and with the music, like even trying to make you feel more mature, you know saying like, “Oh, you're too young to know who this is, you know the same music that I know.” That's red flag two, and then to get an invitation to get closer to you with the texting, red flag three. And this is, all a lot of these stories we're looking at two, three, four years but it can happen if someone's really, and it sounds like from your story, because I was going to ask about this, it doesn't, it sound like this was a situational thing where he, you know like, I don’t really believe the same way but where someone would say, “oh he saw a situation and quote, unquote, messed up.” This is a situation where you can see clearly, especially when you've listened to a lot of these cases, you can see the bait being thrown out in that first meeting.

Rachel: Oh, it was completely premeditated in my opinion. And I think that grooming already is premeditated sexual assault. And I can recognize now that all of this was grooming and not, specifically to the music thing, and then, asking to text to check in on me, that's a hundred percent grooming, but he was grooming you the minute you stepped in to the youth group. And, anyone I grew up with cannot argue this, that he was extremely touchy feely with all of us. With pulling your hair, with punching your arm, full on wrestling sometimes at different activities. Things that if I was seen doing it with a boy my age, we would get in so much trouble. But if it’s with the youth pastor, well its totally fine now. And each time he made a dirty joke around you, each time that he would push you, or pull your hair, that was all grooming. He's seeing how you are going to react and how you react is what he'll do the next time. And each time he is just pushing and pushing the limit a little bit more to see your reaction. So that by the time something actually happens, that line was already blurred for so long that you don't even realize what's happening, is he's molesting you or he's this he's that because you don’t, in your mind it's he does that with everyone. He's been doing this for so long, like it was a little uncomfortable this time but it’s nothing new, its nothing shocking. And that's something that I think was really hard for me for, to see people, not, there wasn't many teenagers I grew up with that defended him, but I think they had a hard time to believe just how evil he was. And it was hard for me to explain., you, that could of been you. That every teenager that stepped in that youth group was nothing but a potential crime to him, there, each conversation, everything was just him seeing what your reaction would be, to see how much further he can go.

Eric: Yeah. And also too, I think you kind of alluded to this, but also making jokes in front of other people. He was also grooming the people around him to accept what he was doing and to see; is someone going to call me out? How far can I push this in a public setting where, people are still gonna have my back. But yeah so.

Rachel: He would make those jokes, I remember him making those jokes in front and he was definitely more bold in front of certain people. But, it was those same kind of jokes in front of different youth workers in front of staff kids, deacon kids. It wasn't like he picked and choose who he would say the joke around or who he would make a dirty comment around, it was everybody. And he's saying out loud in the middle of the hallway. So then, when he starts texting you and the Inappropriate comment slips in, you don't question it right away because he's saying it in public too. No one's saying anything about it, no one's stopping him from doing that. So, why comment about it privately, if he's going to do it publicly as well.

Eric: Right, right, so what about around, what time is this when you start texting and like what grade, what year?

Rachel: This would have been around 10th grade.

Eric: Okay, around 10th grade. So you start texting them, like and your parents are fully aware you're texting him or aware to the sense that people in the youth group text the youth pastor? 

Rachel: I’m not going to lie, my, I was very independent at a very young age. And so my parents fully trusted me, they fully trusted the environment I was in and in my opinion, depended on the environment a lot to also be that, parental figure. So my parents were not the kind to, take my phone each night or like I was, I gave them no reason not to trust me. And so they, and even if, a few times, if my mom did see his name on my phone, there's nothing to worry about that's the youth pastor. Why would you question that? 

Eric: Yeah, you just hit on it. They kind of relied on that, like as being an extra parental figure. I do think it's a, my dad said this recently, and this is not shade on my dad, cause I think he meant it like many well intentioned parents do. But sometimes my dad will say, “well the church helped raise you.” Like there's people when I say something negative about the church, he'll say, “the church, you know the church, there's people in the church that helped raise you.” And I'm always like, “no, you raised me.” And like the church was there and it was formative, but that was not at all their role. And I think the people who stepped into that role overstepped in a lot of ways, but I think you kind of hit on that. There's a lot of parents, and I'm just clarifying this because I want people listening who maybe have kids in a situation to reconsider, obviously. But I think a lot of parents see, Oh, my kid is gone all day, but they're with their youth pastor. I'm so lucky that my kid wants to hang out with their youth pastor and not a drug dealer, whatever crazy thing they come up with. And, Oh, I see the youth pastors name on my girl's phone. I'm glad it's not some boy trying to do something. And the issue is people don't realize those can be two of the same. Like the manipulative boy can become a youth pastor. The person who's overstepping boundaries and be a pastor, it can be a pastor's wife, it can be all of these things.

So I think you saying that safety net of saying, Oh, she’s a good kid because now she’s interested in spending time with the youth pastor, with people from the church. Most parents in America, even people who aren’t Christians would be like, Oh, that’s awesome, that’s a good thing, but you have to be way more aware than that because there’s a lot of bad people that try to slip into these kinds of roles for that exact reason.

Rachel: Well and it's funny that you mentioned that too, about, being maybe desensitized is the word, that I'm texting, that his name is constantly on my phone. And it's interesting because, I remember there was one time my phone went off in class and so if you want to get your phone back, you have to go to the principal to get your phone back and coincidentally, it went off because Victor was texting me during class. And so I go to Mr. Beale’s office to get my phone back, and I knew I didn't have anything on my phone, so I wasn't worried about anything. And he was going through my messages and he made a comment about, “wow, you sure text Brother Victor a lot.” And I, that was the first time I felt awkward or questioned why that would be weird. And I felt extremely uncomfortable and I just looked at him and said, “okay.” And he goes on and makes a comment and says, “does his wife know?” And I was mortified. I just looked at him and said, “does she know what?” And he was like, “his name's on here a whole lot.” And he, it was obvious he was not happy or thrilled that he was texting me so much. And he just handed me my phone back and I walked out and to my knowledge, he never said anything about it to my parents, never said anything about it to Victor, never said anything about it to Bruce Goddard, and I just walked out completely confused. Like, What just happened? Why am I being made to feel like I did something wrong?” When like an, obviously the nature of the text was not inappropriate or else, I would've thought he would have said something. And at that time looking back, it, it was a constant conversation, he was texting me a lot, but it was very boring stuff. Talking about, he would randomly send me like a joke, or send me like a Bible verse, or talk about if I can help with an upcoming activity or something. Nothing, nothing that would alarm me at that point. And so…

Eric: Yeah, Oh, sorry. I was just going to say it's interesting just from Beale's perspective that the blame was on you and it wasn't like, Hey, why is one of our staff texting a teenage girl?Because again, at that time period, and I think back again, to the best of my knowledge and I thoroughly don't think anything ever happened with like my youth leaders, but there were things that they did that weren't smart, like texting. If you're a pastor, listen to this, don't text any girls in your congregation just constantly, that's not smart. I wouldn't go so far as don't ever send a message or don't ever, but having a constant flow of communication with people, especially if they're minors, like just don't do it because you're putting, even if you're completely innocent, it looks really bad.

Rachel: Yes, extremely. At this point, he is texting me a lot and he started doing this thing where he was like, “Oh, since you're so into music” and would make it like a joke about joking about how I got in trouble with music. And “Oh, since you're, since you think, you know everything about music, do you know this song?” And he would send me like an older song and I'd be like, “Oh yeah, I heard that. Or yeah, I liked that one.” And so that kind of became like a thing where you would try to think of songs that he didn't think I would know or would just be like, “Oh, I heard this the other day in the store. It sounds so cool.” I don't mean it was confusing because it’s, I got in trouble for listening to that, but it's okay if I listen to it with you or you're the one showing me. And so there was really no reason for me to be like, well why are you sending me this? It seemed very innocent and at that point still normal. And that continued on for a little while and, or he would ask, “Oh, what song do you like? tell me a song to look up.” And then I would find a song and send one to him. and it was just very, I mean that's totally weird, but at the time it seemed very normal.

Eric: But at the time, it just seems like it's a cool youth leader.

Rachel: Yeah and that was definitely, that was his reputation, he was a very funny person. He knew how to make you laugh, he knew how to be relatable with you. As most abusers do, they're not the creepy guy in the hallway. They know how to charm people, they know how to turn on what they need to turn on, to make you believe that side of them. And, he sends me a song and he says, “I heard the song and you have to tell me what you think of it.” And I was like, “Oh, okay.” And he says, “I just couldn’t help but think of you when I heard it.” And I was like, “oh, okay.” And I was thinking it was going to be like something funny, or I don’t know what I was thinking. But he sends me the song and I’m not even going to say the title because the title is inappropriate and I’m listening to it and the entire song is about sex. I mean, completely inappropriate, very explicit, and I’m listening to it, like am I hearing this correctly? Like it, It sounds cool, it has a cool beat but like the lyrics are extremely explicit. One of the lyrics is literally “I want to have sex with you.” And I don’t, I don’t think I even replied right away cause, I was like, how, how do I say this without making it weird? And I even remember him, like sending a question mark after, like really wanting my response. And I just said “yeah, sounds cool. I like the bass in it," or something like, let me not acknowledge the very explicit lyric. And he pushed even further and said, “what do you think about the chorus?”

And the chorus is like where all the inappropriateness was and I was just like, “yeah, sounds cool.” And he just sent back like a Winky face or something. And I remember thinking, like that's weird. This is a very inappropriate song, but I don't want to make it weird. I don't want to acknowledge that and make it more weird than it already is. And then I don't remember if I even text back. I think I just left it alone, like okay, that was weird. Maybe he didn't hear that part, maybe he heard it differently, or I’m making excuses for him for…

Eric: You'd already been taught to carry the blame for whatever goes wrong all this time.

Rachel: Yeah, and so it was right around that time our school and our church, this was a school one has a fundraiser, as they have many fundraisers and, but this one specifically was for candy sale where we would just go into the community and sell candy for, I really don't know what, I'm not sure where the money went, but, he invited me to go sell candy with him. And I remember as younger seeing all, and this is just my opinion, what seemed like the cooler, popular kids always got invited by him to go with him to sell candy. And it's now I'm being asked to like, I'm one of those kids now. And a few of my friends were going, I'm like, yeah, of course, like this is going to be so fun. And so we all go and we're in Moreno Valley and selling candy and we get to each stop, and there's also a very strict role at our church and school that a girl and a guy can not be alone in a car together. Whether you're a teenager with a teenage boy or you're an adult with a teenager, you cannot be alone in the car with the opposite gender.

And there was like, I think three or four people with us. So he was going to each stop and leaving them like in front of a store to sell candy for an hour or so. And so there's me and one other girl in the car and we pull up and I go to get out with her and he's like, “Oh wait, I was going to bring you over to Albertsons.” and I'm like, “Oh, okay.” So I just sit back down, she gets out and I'm thinking, it means it's only going to be us in the car. But it's right down the street, no big deal. And so I sit back down and he's like, "you’re not gonna sit in the front with me.” And I'm like, “Oh, okay.” So I go and sit in the front seat and we're driving and before I know it, we pass Albertsons. We're not going to Albertsons right now. And so we keep driving and I remember thinking like, okay, And I noticed he's not really going anywhere, we’re just circling things. And before I know it, he is putting his hand on my leg and I remember thinking maybe he doesn't see my leg there or like making excuses for his actions. And he flips off the church music that he had on and puts on the radio and is acting all cool and stuff with me, “Oh, you get to listen to music now.” And I remember I just laughed about it, “Oh yeah.” And we keep driving and he grabs my hand and just start holding my hand. And so we're driving around listening to music and holding hands.

And I remember I was just frozen. Like what the heck is happening right now? and I didn't say a word. I didn't, I couldn't even look at him. I just looked out the window the whole time and he's just sitting there holding my hand and driving the car and that went on for a few more minutes and then we're back in front of Albertsons and he's like, “all right, I'll be back in 45 minutes.” And I'm like, “okay.” So I just grabbed my candy and jump out and I just stand in front of Albertsons, like what, what just happened? I, he definitely did that, that was not an accident, like he didn't just brush my leg. It was very intentional. And then I began to question everything like, did I give him a reason to think that, I was going to be okay with this? Or did he actually do that. And I felt like I was constantly questioning in my head if, first of all, if it even happened and I'm like, I'll just wait and see if he'll say anything about it to me, if you never text me about it, he never said anything. So I'm like, I'm not going to bring it up and I just stood there for that whole hour. I couldn't even open my candy, didn’t even talk to one person, just stood there in front of Albertsons, like what do I do now? And so he comes back and now everyone's in the car and he picks me up and we all go to McDonald's or In-N-Out, something and it's a great night and everything's fine. And, I'm goofing off and having fun with my friends and go home. He never said anything, so I never texted about it, never said anything. And so a few days go by and it's never brought up. So I'm like, okay, like maybe, maybe it was just an accident.

And so we, a couple of days go by it and he asked me again, if I would want to go back out to sell candy again. And it was the same group of people that was going to go. And they were all really good friends of mine and we have really a lot of fun together. And at this point I don't think any of us were driving or anything. So it was kind of rare that we all got to be in a car together. Like that was like the highlight and so I'm like, “yeah, I'm like, I'll go again.” And in my mind, I was also seeing if this, if something will happen again, or if this was just something that, I read into. And so we’re in a different city now, we’re all going to each store and it’s like clockwork. I noticed that he’s letting everyone off first and I’m definitely feeling the anxiety of, okay maybe I wasn’t just imagining what happened. And he said, “Hey Rach, I’m gonna, you’re going to go to State of Brothers” or whatever the store was. And I’m like, “okay” and so he drops the last person off again and I’m just sitting there and before I could say anything, he says, it was kind of cooler out that night and he says, “ do you want me to get some hot chocolate?” And I go, “sure”, like that sounds fine in my head, that means we’re going to be at a store, we’re going somewhere. And so we pull up to Barnes and Nobles and we both walk in and he gets us some hot chocolate and he says, “Oh, I, I need to get something really fast.” So we walk over to where, like the music is in Barnes and Nobles and I noticed like he's going through all these TVs, stuff like that. And he’s like, “Oh, I found it.”

So he goes and buys it and we go out to the car and it's a Robin Thicke CD. Which at that time I did not know who Robin Thicke was, not music that a 30 something year old man would be listening with a teenage girl and he puts the CD in and we just start listening to it and drinking hot chocolate. And I'm just like, I feel like I'm just zoned out, like what, what is going on? so before I know it, he just starts crying and like very visibly upset and just crying and I'm instantly made to feel like, what's wrong? What happened? And he just starts talking about, his job and the pressure with his work and from the church and some other things that he brought up and very, I mean things that you should not be telling anyone that is not married to you, or definitely not a teenager in your youth group. And just starts opening up about all this stuff and telling me all this stuff that I had no idea about as far as what the church and with his life and stuff. And he, I remember he even made a comment like, “I'm such a terrible youth pastor, all the teenagers hate me and I'm not doing anything good enough.” And I realized now this is all grooming and I'm instantly made to feel like, no, you're not, what are you talking about? We all love you, you’re so cool, you’re so fun. And he’s still visibly upset, crying, and then it’s like, he catches himself and said, “oh my gosh, like I cannot believe I just told you all that. What if you tell so and so? What if you tell you friends?” Instantly, making me say, “i’m not going to tell anyone, don’t worry.” That was all, that’s exactly what he wanted. And he just like totally baited me and I just went along with it.

And so, he just sat there and he looks at me and he’s like, “I could just really use a hug, can I just hug you?” And I’m like, “sure.” I feel so bad for him at this point, that all these terrible things are going on in his life. So, he gives me a hug and I notice he’s just rubbing my back and squeezing me really hard and still crying on my shoulder. And I’m just like, “it’s okay.” And so, he’s just like, “man, like, I haven’t told anyone that. Ive never been able to tell anybody that. It’s just so easy to talk to you. And it’s like I’m talking to one of my best friends and he’s like but man, like you can’t tell anybody that.” And I’m like, “yeah, don’t worry.” Instantly, making me feel like I’m in on this information that nobody else knows and I’m so mature to understand it, when even the adults don’t understand. And, this is all grooming, a hundred percent. Very calculated, premeditated grooming and it worked unfortunately. So after that, that night started years of abuse.

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